Welcome to part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Archisman Mohapatra.

Here, we explore cryptocurrency, career paths, and the future of the GRID (Generating Research Insights for Development) Council.

Dr. Purnoor: You were recently invited to talk about healthcare in the metaverse and even to a Crypto World Conference, how did that happen?

Dr. Archisman: What really happens is, we all want to be leaders and we have thoughts to share, when we initially get into the studies, within the context of a department, it’s what entire community medicine people are talking about. When you become a bit senior with this, they ask you to come over and then share your opinions. Now you’re talking to an audience, which is probably a mix of different disciplines, but in medical science, right? And you are there on the dais. You are from community medicine then there is someone from pediatrics, someone from gynecology and all, but only medicos.

Then there will be other people from other disciplines. There will be a management guy on administration, some historian, some economist. And so with your seniority, if you go in further, then you may be from the health background, but you’re no longer talking about it. So you are handling some other portfolio, some other business, some other domain. Basically, your ascent on the power ladder or visibility ladder positions you to an audience, which is multidisciplinary or at least may or may not be from a health background.

At that point in time, you need to have the bandwidth so that you can immediately connect with your panelists and also have that vocabulary for the audience. There is no point in talking about absolute epidemiology or medical science. You need to have your audience with you. That means you need to have an armory where you can actually pull out your arrows depending on the situation.

Dr. Purnoor: What are your views on Crypto?

Dr. Archisman: See, I’m not exactly a crypto guy. Neither am I much invested in the metaverse. But, I was invited into 3 or 4 of such events where I had to speak up about the future of public health in metaverse by virtue of my experience in public health and whatever understanding I have of metaverse. I think the same thing will happen to you. Maybe you would be asked to talk about ChatGPT.

If you are good in your subject, or if you are doing well in your subject and you are adequately visible, a new thing comes up. Just by your de facto positioning over there, you get those opportunities. So, opportunities go to the people who are prepared.

Dr. Purnoor: So, we cannot really delineate a fixed career path, it probably just manifests along the way.

Dr. Archisman: It just happens that way. I think too much of planning does not help. What really happens with planning? See, planning is a double-edged sword. If you are under-resourced, then you need to plan well, because you can’t just wait for the resource, right? So, that’s where planning helps. But for someone who could achieve things, especially, whose achievements are dependent on changes in the external environment beyond his or her control then, how can you really plan? Your plan has to evolve, right?

So, I couldn't plan on what GRID would do now three years ago. I had no vision of what this organization would look like today, or what kind of relationship this organization would build, or what kind of challenges this organization would face. Only because I did some interim day-to-day firefighting, then the organization developed this way. Now, I have a career.

Dr. Purnoor: When it comes to your career path, what is your passion at the moment?

Dr. Archisman: At this point of time, I do not have a passion, a vision is now there. But I am not sure, that too may get revised again.

My vision is that I want the public health space to become very competitive. Absolutely disrupted and competitive. When people talk, they talk sense. They don’t talk about knowledge, because knowledge, and memory, they do not hold much value. So, people should start to think logically. The juniority-seniority culture should go.

There are many people who want this to happen, and that change is happening.

Youngsters are taking the subject by choice. They’re trying to do different things. They are no longer happy with just drawing a salary. They want to try things out.

But there are issues here, suppose today I want to do a workshop on qualitative research. Some random hundred people will attend. Then in two days time, five of them will go out, and they will conduct a workshop on qualitative research. They do not understand it, but they will do it. Immediately, the entire thing, the entire ecosystem, becomes so contaminated and so bad in quality. Then, you can’t really aspire to get the best people to come and talk.

Dr. Aarti: Yeah, it gets diluted. And dilution is what we are basically struggling with right now. You’re right, absolutely.

Absolutely right.

Dr. Archisman: You’re also seeing the same thing happening in your space, right?

Dr. Aarti: Yes, because people are trying to come in with, you know, some background, and they are diluting it in this sector. So, yes, dilution is being seen there.

Dr. Archisman: I can see that thing happening. Because people are restless, they want to try different things, but they are also settling down for mediocrity. They are not aspiring to do much hard work. They are settling down with a casual attitude.

Dr. Aarti: Actually, it is happening with a lot of businesses also, like if you come with a mindset that you have to get through something, but then it is going to take some time. People are not willing to invest the time, they just want to get done with it.

Sometimes, in the long run then, there is no long run. It just ends wounded, so that also happens.

Dr. Archisman: And then people start counting you as part of that.

Dr. Aarti: They think that if we are part of the system we are also in the same lane, whatsoever efforts you have been putting in, they all go in vain. Completely relatable.

Dr. Archisman: In the next three years, our effort will be such, if someone speaks of community medicine, it would feel like talking to JAMES BOND. So, we are going to get some glamor into the field. Humble, yet like spies wearing suits, super stylish, but badass. That is what I want, this subject should become super glamorous. And we should talk sense.

Dr. Purnoor: Sir, Community Medicine departments are not uniform across the country. Even within the same district, one department is not comparable to the other one. So how do you see this happening? How will this level of excellence actualize in the current medical education system?

Dr. Archisman: See, there are going to be issues, are people actually interested to take it to that level? If it becomes that competitive, it may impact my own survival as well. The other problem is that - can I get people who are very well positioned along, will they want that?

But, if I use the principles of cohort science, where the students I am training are the cohort. Within the next five years, I have well-trained professionals. If I see even a little bit of skill, I can maximize it. If people are thinking in that direction, what maxima this disruption will achieve before it is standardized, God only knows.

But it is exciting, something is changing at least.

Dr. Purnoor: There is a lot of potential to be explored over here.

Dr. Archisman: Yes, wherever there is competition, a lot of ideas are generated.

Dr. Aarti: Any unforgettable event in your life that left a deep impact?

Dr. Archisman: *confidential incident shared*

The crux being, you can make a profit out of imminent loss. This is the pattern I have seen with all the leaders. An ordinary person feels dejected with loss, an above-average person will play it neutral, however, the smart ones make profit out of the crisis. Play fearlessly, and tables turn.

Dr. Aarti: Any situation in your life, where you felt you could have done anything better? Any disappointments?

Dr. Archisman: Way too many! Loads and loads of them!

The most recent one is when we just started GRID, we were able to get a project. I was already doing something else at that time but could not say no to this project. So, I trusted a friend. We got the project under his name and I delivered. That was a big value contract.

But, my friend ditched me. My team was working with him, but as soon as it was finished, the guy ran off with the money in his account. That kind of hurts still, I considered him my brother to such an extent that I trusted him with the project.

If I try to fight for my rights, I will lose time and I cannot really get into legal things, since, there was no written contract.

The consolation I got from my team was, "Don't mind, this is not the only time you will be ditched." (laughing through pain)

Dr. Aarti: So, where do you see GRID in the coming years?

Dr. Archisman: One thing is where do I see it in my dreams? Then, where do I see it in reality?

In my dreams, I am looking at GRID as a fantastic research organisation, well known in all LMICs (Lower middle-income countries) Everyone has the perception that if we need to conduct some research let us go to GRID people, they know it the best or if research is done by GRID, then this is beyond doubt. This is the standard. We have the conviction that we are no less than Harvard or Stanford.

But, now the two-point reality: One, research is a very niche area. High-quality research is a further niche, it is very complex. If something is very complex, it is very difficult to scale. Complexity and scale cannot co-exist unless you pour resources into them. If I want a very good researcher on my team, he is going to ask for a huge sum of money. And if I want that the person joining me to do the same quality of work, assumptions are he has had a similar upbringing and similar life experiences, he has my eccentricities, and he has been working as hard, with my IQ, EQ, and SQ.

But where will I find people like that? Complexity at scale without resources is the first challenge. The other thing is, I want to democratize. I am in a network and my core team is very small. However, my expanse runs very deep. I am linked with many medical colleges and this is also my core skill, "multi-site epidemiological study designs" and "managing a network."

I don't want people to think that the work being done by Archisman and team do not understand it at all or feel 'What is this GRID, some random entity in existence for a while?'. Maybe a resident will have research skills, but once he enters academia and becomes a professor, maybe he will think why does he need GRID now? How can GRID be a giving organization and at the same time secure ownership? Every connecting link should own up to this organization.

But if it is that democratic, it will become very mundane! Ordinary people are ordinary and very smart people may not bind themselves with the ownership unless you give them something very exciting. I am not able to resolve this, but I am trying to think it through, without resources.

Dr. Aarti: Are there any trust issues after that betrayal by your friend? Or is it just that you haven't met like-minded people?

Dr. Archisman: I don't have trust issues, but you must at least have some so that you are not lured into such things. I empathize when I see big-shot researchers getting caught up in a conflict of interest. A studious person, if you'll try to trap him, he will get trapped, rather all this may hamper his sanity.

That is why I want to understand what is this political science! It is better to be well informed.

I will delegate this part, and hire someone, who can deal with negotiations. But, yeah, never undersell yourselves. What are you going to write about this? (everybody laughs)

Dr. Aarti: Haha, let's do some quick fun questions.

Dr. Purnoor: Sir, what will be your message for budding doctors?

Dr. Archisman: Work hard, guys! Do not take it lightly, your times are going to be really really tough.

Dr. Purnoor: Any specific pointers for public health students?

Dr. Archisman:  Your MD degree is just minuscule. Your core skills are actually leveraging your school education. Community medicine is very complex.

Dr. Purnoor: Sir, what are your passions outside of academics and outside of your professional life?

Dr. Archisman: I read. It was not my passion, but I have become passionate in the last three years. I read nonfiction; I like personal development and management books, as they give me a lot of motivation. I get a lot of ideas, motivation, and energy.

Dr. Purnoor: So what was the last book that you read?

Dr. Archisman: I read, actually, two or three books at a time. I’m reading this book, and I recommend you the book, "Building a Successful Social Venture - Eric Carlson and James Koch (2018)." It’s a good book. Some time ago, I read this book, "The Fortune at the Bottom of the Pyramid - C. K. Prahalad, Coimbatore K. Prahalad (2005)." The first book is an antithesis of the second one. Very interesting counterpoints.

(Showing the titles on camera with pleasant enthusiasm)

Dr. Aarti: So one will have to read both!

(Delightful smiles)

Dr. Purnoor: What do you like to do in your free time apart from reading?

Dr. Archisman: I watch a lot of YouTube.

Dr. Aarti: If your life were a movie, what would you name it?

Dr. Archisman: "Chaos."

Dr. Aarti: And how would your friends describe you?

Dr Archisman: They will say I am crazy (laughs)

Dr. Aarti: What do you think your quality is?

Dr Archisman: I enjoy talking.

Dr. Aarti: So what would you be doing if you were not a doctor?

Dr. Archisman: Definitely a teacher or maybe in a Management School.

Dr. Aarti: Wow. That is amazing.

Dr. Aarti: Just imagine if you’re given only one food for a full year. Then, what would be your choice?

Dr. Archisman: Briyani or anything that has chicken.

Dr. Aarti: Any quote that you relate to?

Dr Archisman: If you don’t solve your problems, nobody else will.

_(MSM)